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What do I think about Taoism (from this one book?)

I find it calming, there is much I like. It seems to have a very clear dark side, or at least dark-grey side which is there in the text but which most Western interlocurs seem to either not see or just keep quiet about.

Though that seems to go for the majority of religious when you actually read the text. The people living them are usually really living a complex synthesis of the better parts of scripture mixed with broadly pro-scial stuff that ma

What do I think about Taoism (from this one book?)

I find it calming, there is much I like. It seems to have a very clear dark side, or at least dark-grey side which is there in the text but which most Western interlocurs seem to either not see or just keep quiet about.

Though that seems to go for the majority of religious when you actually read the text. The people living them are usually really living a complex synthesis of the better parts of scripture mixed with broadly pro-scial stuff that makes sense. The whacko puritans you see acting like loons are usually people who have actually read the books all the way through and are following them exactly.

I like the stuff about darkness. I like darkness generally as a theme. It feels true to me and more true when talking about deep things.

When I imagine the darkness of Taoism I think of it as akin to the darkness of my own mind in the moments before an idea or perception brings itself into focus or allows itself into being.

When I try to trace back the originating influences for an idea, I often find some of them, traces in the world. But I can’t find all of them, and I can never ‘see’ an idea before it exists. It is like the explosive ignition of a firework. It cannot be observed directly. As soon as its effects come into play they expand outward through the neural nets, forming connections and inferences, but the original moment is something that must happen in timeless darkness, unmeasured.

Because I spend a lot of time making things up, I spend a lot of time essentially praying to darkness. Or at least, waiting. Paused with a pen and a blank pad and nothing on my mind, trying to hold the elements of a problem in my mind but without actualy focusing on the solution. Present but not present. Waiting for something.

The irony of a man obsessed with books, discussing a book in which a central concept is that knowledge from books should not be respected, online, via a textual medium, is far from lost on me.

Still, the wheelwright is right. Books, and words generally, are delusions, or just a kind of arrant prorgramme running over the texture of reality, like a bug running over a cake. They are not things you should believe in, certainly not things you should treat as absolute.

Whether I stand any chance of applying this wisdom to my own life; probably not. I would have to say I have failed, and am failing, in my war, with words, against words. The words are winning.

I like its attitude towards people and the public, which seems ever more meaningful today as we live in our infinite maze of glass. There is no way out of it. Trying to be special only highlights the ways in which you are like everyone else. We are all out here posting our travel pics, trying to be unique in exactly the same ways. Why bother.

There is simply no escape from the trap of a desire for regard or of a relationship with public opinion. How can any of us get away from it? The public eye is right there, can we ever not dance for it? If we make a big fuss about not dancing for it then we are still dancing for it, just in a different way. It is a labyrinth of mirrors and since there is no exit we may as well just breathe deeply and close our eyes.

Why ask me? Product of things I cannot see and do not understand, ending for reasons I can barely percieve, lasting as long as I last and following rules most of which I can also not see. Why ask me indeed.

And I like this bit on taking action from ‘The Old Fisherman’

Confucius looked sad and sighed, bowed twice, stood up and said, ‘Lu has exiled me twice, I have fled from Wei, they have felled a tree on me in Sung and laid siege to me between Chen and Tsai. I have no idea what I did to be so misunderstood. Why was I subject to these four forms of trouble?

The stranger looked distressed, then his expression changed and he said, ‘ It is very difficult, Sir, to make you understand! There was once a man who was frightened by his own shadow and scared of his own footprints, so he tried to escape them by running away. But every time he lifted his foot and brought it down, he made more footprints, and no matter how fast he ran, his shadow never left him. Thinking he was running too slowly, he ran faster, never ceasing until finally he exhausted himself and collapsed and died. he had no idea that by simply sitting in the shade he would have lost his shadow, nor that by resting quietly he would cease making footprints. He really was a great fool!

Although I think I also disagree with it. You might say I both agree and disagree with it, which doesn’t seem to be a big problem with Taoism which loves paradox and uncertainty.

I do think Taoism on politics is interesting interesting and should be taken into consideration.

Bluntly – try hard not to do anything, and if you can’t avoid doing anything, then try to do as little as possible, or at least, don’t shove or warp things out of the way they are already going to go.

There seems to be a difference between what I seem to read in actual (translated) Taoist texts and Western interpretations of them.

The originals seem really, deeply, obsessively moraly neutral and non-interventionist. If we are to follow them as they are written, then it looks like most good works are just out the window.

There is nothing outside the Tao, and this must apply to very bad things as it does to very bad things. Like in this bit from ‘The Shores of Dark Waters’;

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“Master Tung Kuo asked Chuang Tzu, ‘That which is called the Tao, where is it?
Chuang Tzu replied, ‘There is nowhere where it is not.’
‘But give me a specific example.’
‘In this ant,’ said Chuang Tzu.
‘Is that its lowest point?’
‘In this panic grass,’ said Chuang Tzu.
‘Can you give me a lower example?’
‘In this common earthenware tile,’ said Chuang Tzu.
‘This must be its lowest point!’
‘It’s in shit and piss too,’ said Chuang Tzu.”

So it must be in rape and earthquakes, murder and mutilation, humiliation, pain, loss and ruin also. After all, it is the Tao, it cannot help but be in those things.

The two ways in which people seem to try to square this circle are the idea of ‘essential nature’ in the Book of Chuang Tzu, which is broadly a primitivist but slightly positive view in which things only go really badly in nature and between people if people stop following their essential nature. But if we all went and lived on communes or something then all this bad stuff just wouldn’t happen.

I don’t think this is true. I think that all the way from Chimps to Neolithic Hunter Gatherers to Nation States, these ‘negative’ or undesired elements have been there. So either there is an essential nature to humanity and it includes a lot of bad shit, or there is no essential nature.

True, the book of Chuang Tzu doesn’t directly tell us that this stuff will stop happening if we all become Taoists and follow our essential nature, it just somewhat glides around the issue.

The Westeners, from what I can see, are basically following broadly pro-social Abrahamic/Greek ethics from Jesus, Aristotle and their own lived experience and using Taoism as a kind of contrast or investigative polarity to that, and just calling that Taoism.

Which I think is actually probably a pretty good idea. It’s just theoretically stupid, and not what it says on the box, but it does actually work so I can hardly complain too much.

But it is not what it says on the box. It’s really, deeply obscure, and very untrusting of any positive human effort. Its not here to make you happy. It’s not here to make you anything. It simply is.

Those who deeply follow the Tao seem to reach a state of disconnection which, from the outside, looks almost like total ego death and/or massive depression.

To be fair, being really depressed, and having Ego Death, and being totally absorbed in the Tao are not the same thing internally. And being really depressed is bad, probably, Ego Death is arguably one way or the other depending on circumstances, though I do not like the look of it myself, and being one with the Tao is probably good.

But the only way to really know which of these is going on with someone is to basically ask them, and if they can be bothered answering you they might say “Yes I was one with the Tao, until you interrupted me and fucked it up.

You can’t speak of the Tao because it is wordless. You can barely pass it on. Becoming one with it means you basically just hang around doing very little. It is so seperate from the angst and action of the human experience that there seems very little to link them.

Maybe thinking about the Tao is good for you, just don’t actually find it or you will become an essentially useless person. (Good from the Taoist perspective, now you are like the old tree which does not get chopped down because it has no relation to the world of things which are used).

(Another thing I don’t really have any respect for is the desire to hang on to life and be immortal, but that seems to have become a thing more in later slightly crapper Taoism.)

But what’s the point or the pleasure of such a life? It seems as grey and empty as the sky. Just hang around on a mountain being an immortal to no particular end or reason? Why even care about preserving your body if it has no purpose?

Fundamentally, at my anglo materialist core, I do not trust systems of knowing which cannot be exposed to consensus reality. I don’t like it. Consensus reality might be an absolute load of hysterical paper-thin bullshit, but its better than nothing.

Is that it? Just stillness and pigs? It sounds better to be Robber Chih.

Presumably other people have thought about this and have quite complex belief systems about how actually following Taoism results in the kinds of pro-social behaviour and recognisable fulfillment they value.

…more

[NEW] จวงจื่อ ฉบับสมบูรณ์ | จวงจื่อ – Sathyasaith

4.5 ⭐

– No Beginning (aka. Zhuangzi)

– Confucius (Zhuangzi claims)

Walking a frayed and weathered tightrope between transcendental enlightenment and radical idealistic fancy, many will find the works of Zhuangzi in ’The Book of Chuang Tzu’ to be unrealistic and impractical in our modern times (perhaps in Zhuangzi’s time [396 BCE – 286 BCE] as well), and in many ways I would agree, however, if you’ve an open mind and a good sense of humour, there is a lot to love about this particular Chinese Philosopher and his ideas.

Zhuangzi (Chuang Tzu – I’ll mainly use Zhuangzi but it’s the same guy FYI) is the most significant of Daoism’s interpreters to have followed the enigmatic, and likely fictional, Lao Tzu. Lao Tzu’s ’Tao Te Ching’ and ‘The Book of Chuang Tzu’ are the 2 most important works in the Daoist canon and couldn’t be further separated by their stylistic approach.

Where the ‘Tao Te Ching’ is organised into brief chapters/passages containing short, poetic and often paradoxical statements that encourage contradictory interpretations, ‘The Chuang Tzu’ is a hilariously eccentric anthology of anecdotes and allegory, filled with vibrant personalities (both fictional and non) including but not limited to Emperors, Sages and “uptight Confucians”. Zhuangzi yo-yos back-and-forth between a tongue-in-cheek, mocking tone and endearing sincerity, but an iron wit and undeniable wisdom is evident regardless of the mood you find him in. This seems an odd thing to say about Zhuangzi, but he also offers lucidity to many of the ambiguous metaphysical concepts found in Lao Tzu’s work.

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Zhuangzi is a dreamer, who baulks at convention and rejects the over-governance, ritual propriety, materialism and self-indulgent nature of the people so prevalent during his lifetime. He appeals, overwhelmingly, to my meek, but nevertheless existent, anti-authoritarian side, but more importantly, this work regularly gave me pause and corralled my feeble mind into a state of humbling introspection. It’s like being taken out of your body and examining yourself, and society, from an alien perspective, and realising the true absurdity of our current state of being.

Zhuangzi believed that in order to live by the Tao (extremely rough and hesitant translation: The Way of Heaven/True Virtue), we humans must only follow our innate nature which I take to mean our basic instincts or intuition. We should not seek knowledge, skill, fame, wealth, admiration or any other such external things and we should not strive to be good or bad, kind-hearted or righteous to meet standards of propriety and ritual set by the state or our peers. One should only act as one’s innate nature compels them to, taking the path of least resistance.

Against the State Cult of Confucianism and rejecting the, almost fascist, teachings of the Legalists and the Mohists, Zhuangzi’s teachings are directly opposed to the over-governance of the state and the pushing of moral standards and ritual practices on the people. His belief is that people, as a whole, are inherently good but when strict laws are put in place, to determine how one should behave, proper ritual protocols, what is good/bad, right/wrong etc. then, certainly, people will be righteous and kind, and display agreeable traits because that is the law, however, whether consciously or sub-consciously, they will resent doing so because their behaviour is being, if not enforced then at least, heavily scrutinised under the eye of the law. Over governance replaces virtue and unity with righteousness and compliance. “Ruling by decrees and grand plans [pollutes] the purity of nature and [destroys] simplicity”.

The “perfect sage” has destroyed Zhuangzi’s Utopia with their, often well-meaning but, clumsy attempts to improve and/or reform society. He’s had enough! And nobody’s safe. Least of all Confucius. I should mention that you’ll probably want to have read both the ‘Tao Te Ching’ and ‘The Analects of Confucius’ before leaping into this one. The ‘Tao’, because you’ll want to know the Primary source material that Chuang Tzu is interpreting and ‘The Analects’, because you’ll want to know exactly what Chuang Tzu is rebuking so very often. And boy does he rebuke. Chuang Tzu burns Confucius so hard on so many occasions, the hardest part was picking which example to give you, but this one pretty much sums up how he feels:

To add further insult, Confucius is regularly portrayed as a curious but inferior thinker than the cast of simple Taoists throughout the book. Often found to be in awe of them, realising the error of his ways and requesting to become a student of these wise eccentrics. At other times, he is the one to offer up the wisdoms of the Tao to his disciples. Lionel Giles interestingly suggests, in ‘Musings of a Chinese Mystic’, that Chuang Tzu was likely using Confucius’ fame and influence as a means of spreading his own philosophy. This would go against everything that Zhuangzi stands for but it isn’t completely out of the question and would only be one more inconsistency among many within the text.

Zhuangzi, believes that the acquisition of knowledge and the expanding of ideas only breeds argument and confusion and is detrimental to our well-being. People are unable to simply receive ideas from outside, they have a tendency to cling to them and view other’s ideas as automatically wrong if they don’t marry up to their own. This concept is radical to say the least and suggests an unrealistic wish to return to primitiveness, but taken in a less extreme sense, I think Chuang Tzu is just trying to suggest that we are focusing too much of our attention on petty external (human) issues and neglecting the internal (heavenly)

I feel like Chuang Tzu would go into cardiac arrest if he were to see the state of the world, today. Rarely looking internally, we focus all of our attention on external trivialities. Black and white, east and west, rich and poor, beautiful and ugly, good and bad, right and wrong, straight and gay; we argue and debate about race, gender, abortion, the legalisation of drugs, climate change and on and on and on and it’s a fire that’s perpetually stoked by a modern pandemic called outrage culture and self-conscious, self-aggrandizing social displays of false righteousness and virtue. Exactly what Zhuangzi said would happen when you Pidgeon-hole entire peoples and try to dictate what they should do and how they should act.

Ultimately, like Confucius, I feel as significant as a fly in vinegar when it comes to comprehending the Tao and I have a feeling that even if I could grasp its true meaning, to follow it in our time would be all but an impossibility. Nevertheless, I’ve still found a lot of introspective value in reading these ancient Chinese texts and I look forward to reading just a couple more before moving onto the Western Canon. Mencius is next and he’s got some ground to make up after Zhuangzi tore Confucius a new one. I’m all in for the Confucionist vs. Taoist beef.


20210801_171219

Walking a frayed and weathered tightrope between transcendental enlightenment and radical idealistic fancy, many will find the works of Zhuangzi into be unrealistic and impractical in our modern times (perhaps in Zhuangzi’s time [396 BCE – 286 BCE] as well), and in many ways I would agree, however, if you’ve an open mind and a good sense of humour, there is a lot to love about this particular Chinese Philosopher and his ideas.Zhuangzi (Chuang Tzu – I’ll mainly use Zhuangzi but it’s the same guy FYI) is the most significant of Daoism’s interpreters to have followed the enigmatic, and likely fictional, Lao Tzu. Lao Tzu’sand ‘The Book of Chuang Tzu’ are the 2 most important works in the Daoist canon and couldn’t be further separated by their stylistic approach.Where the ‘Tao Te Ching’ is organised into brief chapters/passages containing short, poetic and often paradoxical statements that encourage contradictory interpretations, ‘The Chuang Tzu’ is a hilariously eccentric anthology of anecdotes and allegory, filled with vibrant personalities (both fictional and non) including but not limited to Emperors, Sages and “uptight Confucians”. Zhuangzi yo-yos back-and-forth between a tongue-in-cheek, mocking tone and endearing sincerity, but an iron wit and undeniable wisdom is evident regardless of the mood you find him in. This seems an odd thing to say about Zhuangzi, but he alsoZhuangzi is a dreamer, who baulks at convention and rejects the over-governance, ritual propriety, materialism and self-indulgent nature of the people so prevalent during his lifetime. He appeals, overwhelmingly, to my meek, but nevertheless existent, anti-authoritarian side, but more importantly, this work regularly gave me pause and corralled my feeble mind into a state of humbling introspection. It’s like being taken out of your body and examining yourself, and society, from an alien perspective, and realising the true absurdity of our current state of being.Zhuangzi believed that in order to live by the Tao (extremely rough and hesitant translation: The Way of Heaven/True Virtue), we humans must only follow ourwhich I take to mean our basic instincts or intuition. We should not seek knowledge, skill, fame, wealth, admiration or any other such external things and we should not strive to be good or bad, kind-hearted or righteous to meet standards of propriety and ritual set by the state or our peers. One should only act as one’s innate nature compels them to, taking the path of least resistance.Against the State Cult of Confucianism and rejecting the, almost fascist, teachings of the Legalists and the Mohists,. His belief is that people, as a whole, are inherently good but when strict laws are put in place, to determine how one should behave, proper ritual protocols, what is good/bad, right/wrong etc. then, certainly, people will be righteous and kind, and display agreeable traits because that is the law, however, whether consciously or sub-consciously, they will resent doing so because their behaviour is being, if not enforced then at least, heavily scrutinised under the eye of the law. Over governance replaces virtue and unity with righteousness and compliance. “Ruling by decrees and grand plans [pollutes] the purity of nature and [destroys] simplicity”.The “perfect sage” has destroyed Zhuangzi’s Utopia with their, often well-meaning but, clumsy attempts to improve and/or reform society. He’s had enough! And nobody’s safe. Least of all. I should mention that you’ll probably want to have read both the ‘Tao Te Ching’ and ‘The Analects of Confucius’ before leaping into this one. The ‘Tao’, because you’ll want to know the Primary source material that Chuang Tzu is interpreting and ‘The Analects’, because you’ll want to know exactly what Chuang Tzu is rebuking so very often. And boy does he rebuke., the hardest part was picking which example to give you, but this one pretty much sums up how he feels:To add further insult, Confucius is regularly portrayed as a curious but inferior thinker than the cast of simple Taoists throughout the book. Often found to be in awe of them, realising the error of his ways and requesting to become a student of these wise eccentrics. At other times, he is the one to offer up the wisdoms of the Tao to his disciples. Lionel Giles interestingly suggests, in ‘Musings of a Chinese Mystic’, that Chuang Tzu was likely using Confucius’ fame and influence as a means of spreading his own philosophy. This would go against everything that Zhuangzi stands for but it isn’t completely out of the question and would only be one more inconsistency among many within the text.Zhuangzi, believes that the acquisition of knowledge and the expanding of ideas only breeds argument and confusion and is detrimental to our well-being. People are unable to simply receive ideas from outside, they have a tendency to cling to them and view other’s ideas as automatically wrong if they don’t marry up to their own. This concept is radical to say the least and suggests an unrealistic wish to return to primitiveness, but taken in a less extreme sense, I think Chuang Tzu is just trying to suggest that we are focusing too much of our attention on petty external (human) issues and neglecting the internal (heavenly)I feel like Chuang Tzu would go into cardiac arrest if he were to see the state of the world, today. Rarely looking internally, we focus all of our attention on external trivialities. Black and white, east and west, rich and poor, beautiful and ugly, good and bad, right and wrong, straight and gay; we argue and debate about race, gender, abortion, the legalisation of drugs, climate change and on and on and on and it’s a fire that’s perpetually stoked by a modern pandemic called outrage culture and self-conscious, self-aggrandizing social displays of false righteousness and virtue. Exactly what Zhuangzi said would happen when you Pidgeon-hole entire peoples and try to dictate what they should do and how they should act.Ultimately, like Confucius, I feel as significant as a fly in vinegar when it comes to comprehending the Tao and I have a feeling that even if I could grasp its true meaning, to follow it in our time would be all but an impossibility. Nevertheless, I’ve still found a lot of introspective value in reading these ancient Chinese texts and I look forward to reading just a couple more before moving onto the Western Canon. Mencius is next and he’s got some ground to make up after Zhuangzi tore Confucius a new one. I’m all in for the Confucionist vs. Taoist beef.

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“จวงจื่อ”วิถีแห่งธรรมวิถีแห่งธรรมชาติ“พญาเผิง” #ครูบาด่อน ทองใสภิกฺขุ


ณ ทะเลลึกแดนเหนือ มีพญามัจฉาชื่อ ‘คุน’ ร่างใหญ่โตไม่รู้กี่พันลี้คุนกลายร่างเป็นพญานกชื่อ ‘เผิง’ แผ่นหลังของเผิงมโหฬารไม่รู้กี่พันลี้ ยามกระพือสะบัดปีกเหินสู่เวหา ปีกแผ่กว้างราวแผ่นเมฆปกคลุมฟ้า เมื่อผืนน้ำแห่งท้องสมุทรเริ่มขยับไหว พญาเผิงก็บ่ายหน้ามุ่งสู่ทะเลสาบสวรรค์แห่งแดนใต้
ในคัมภีร์ฉีเสีย ได้บันทึกเรื่องราวประหลาดนี้ว่า ขณะพญาเผิงสยายปีกมุ่งสู่ทะเลลึกแดนใต้ ท้องทะเลก็ปั่นป่วนคลุ้มคลั่งไกลถึงสามพันลี้ ปีกอันมโหฬารของพญานกตีลมเป็นพายุหมุนและบินสูงขึ้นไปถึงเก้าหมื่นลี้ ถลาล่องไปกับพายุเดือนหก กระแสลมร้อนพัดเป่าฝุ่นตลบฟุ้ง สรรพสิ่งสั่นไหวกระทบเสียดสีกันฝืนฟ้าสีครามเข้มนั้น เป็นสีที่แท้จริงของมันละหรือ? หรือเกิดจากระยะทางไกลโพ้นไร้ที่สิ้นสุด เมื่อพญาปักษามองลงสู่เบื้องล่างก็แลเห็นเพียงสีฟ้าใสเฉกเช่นกัน.
หนังสือจวงจื่อ ฉบับสมบรูณ์ สุรัติ ปรีชาธรรม ผู้แปลและเรียบเรียง

“จวงจื่อ”วิถีแห่งธรรมวิถีแห่งธรรมชาติ“พญาเผิง” #ครูบาด่อน ทองใสภิกฺขุ

ข้อคิดชีวิต วาทะคำคมขงเบ้ง


“ขงเบ้ง” หรือ “จูกัดเหลียง” (Zhuge Liang) เป็นตัวละครในวรรณกรรมจีนอิงประวัติศาสตร์เรื่อง สามก๊ก ที่มีตัวตนจริงในประวัติศาสตร์ยุคสามก๊ก ซึ่งได้รับการขนานนามจากใครต่อใครว่าเป็น”ผู้หยั่งรู้ดินฟ้ามหาสมุทร” เรามักเห็นภาพวาดของขงเบ้งในชุดนักพรต ถือพัดขนนก ใบหน้าขาว แต่งกายดูภูมิฐาน บุคลิกลักษณะของขงเบ้งที่ใครต่อใครต่างกล่าวถึง คือความเฉลียวฉลาดทางการรบและไหวพริบปฏิภาณที่เป็นเลิศ รวมถึงวาจาอันคมคายบาดจิต ซึ่งเรียกได้ว่าคลาสสิคมาถึงยุคปัจจุบัน เพราะใช้เป็นแง่คิดชีวิตได้อย่างดี

ข้อคิดชีวิต วาทะคำคมขงเบ้ง

นอกจากการดูบทความนี้แล้ว คุณยังสามารถดูข้อมูลที่เป็นประโยชน์อื่นๆ อีกมากมายที่เราให้ไว้ที่นี่: ดูบทความเพิ่มเติมในหมวดหมู่Economy

ขอบคุณมากสำหรับการดูหัวข้อโพสต์ จวงจื่อ

4 thoughts on “[NEW] จวงจื่อ ฉบับสมบูรณ์ | จวงจื่อ – Sathyasaith”

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